Legislature(2013 - 2014)BUTROVICH 205

01/22/2014 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES


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03:31:37 PM Start
03:32:10 PM Overview: Department of Environmental Conservation (dec)
04:54:29 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Overview: Dept. of Environmental Conservation TELECONFERENCED
Fukushima Radiation Concerns in Alaska
Commissioner Larry Hartig
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        January 22, 2014                                                                                        
                           3:31 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Cathy Giessel, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Peter Micciche                                                                                                          
Senator Click Bishop                                                                                                            
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
Senator Anna Fairclough                                                                                                         
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Fred Dyson, Vice Chair                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kreiss-Tomkins                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Overview: Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) by                                                                     
Commissioner Larry Hartig                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to consider                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
LARRY HARTIG, Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented overview of the DEC.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:31:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CATHY   GIESSEL  called  the  Senate   Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to order at  p.m. She welcomed everyone back to                                                               
Senate  Resources. Present  at the  call to  order were  Senators                                                               
McGuire, Micciche, Fairclough, Bishop, and Chair Giessel.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^Overview: Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)                                                                       
    OVERVIEW: Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:32:10 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL  invited Larry Hartig, Commissioner,  Department of                                                               
Environmental Conservation  (DEC), to  present his  overview. She                                                               
also  asked  him  to  touch  on  the  effects  of  the  Fukushima                                                               
radiation on our fish and how it's being monitored.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:32:29 PM                                                                                                                    
LARRY   HARTIG,   Commissioner,   Department   of   Environmental                                                               
Conservation (DEC),  Anchorage, Alaska, said DEC's  mission is to                                                               
protect human health  and the environment. He said  the DEC works                                                               
closely with the Department of  Health and Social Services (DHSS)                                                               
on  environmental impacts  on human  health.  For instance,  fish                                                               
tissue  monitoring  from  around  the  state  is  done  at  their                                                               
Environmental Health Lab,  and information is turned  over to HSS                                                               
to evaluate  whether food consumption  advisories or  such things                                                               
need to be issued.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DEC  works  most closely  with  Department  of Natural  Resources                                                               
(DNR)  and  Alaska  Department  of  Fish  and  Game  (ADF&G)  for                                                               
protecting the environment side; for  example, ADF&G has the wild                                                               
animals and  DEC has domestic  animals and their care,  and their                                                               
concern is with  diseases that can be transmitted  to humans from                                                               
animals. Water  quality might impact  fish and they  have ongoing                                                               
talks with  ADF&G about that. He  explained that DNR is  the land                                                               
manager and DEC  talks with them quite a bit  on land reclamation                                                               
and bonding for water treatment for things like large mines.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:36:11 PM                                                                                                                    
DEC has five divisions:                                                                                                         
1.  Administration:  IT,  human resources,  budget  and  finance,                                                               
accounting, and  the Environmental Crimes Unit  (two people) that                                                               
provides service  to the other  four divisions. They look  at air                                                               
quality,  food safety  or midnight  dumper situations  that might                                                               
involve  Spill Prevention  and Response  (SPAR)  and things  like                                                               
that.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
One of  the department-wide challenges being  addressed primarily                                                               
through the Division of Administration  is trying to move towards                                                               
a  GIS (graphic  information  systems) based  way of  maintaining                                                               
records that enhances talking with  each other within and outside                                                               
the  department;  for instance  if  a  spill  is occurring  at  a                                                               
particular site,  they can see  which fisheries have  openings or                                                               
if it's a spawning area that needs to be protected.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG  said one of  the other challenges  they face                                                               
with the  other departments is  trying to maintain  continuity of                                                               
operations while  replacing the aging workforce  with a declining                                                               
pool of applicants. Sometimes he hears  the way they are going to                                                               
solve the budget problem is  to hire younger people; "well, those                                                               
people aren't there," he said. The  average age of a new employee                                                               
at DEC is  in the 40s and  they are seeing a  lot of retirements,                                                               
especially in SPAR and it's hard to replace those people.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:39:16 PM                                                                                                                    
2. Division of Air Quality:                                                                                                     
This is  the smallest  division and  sets air  quality standards,                                                               
issues  air permits,  monitor air  quality issues  (in Fairbanks,                                                               
for  instance). One  of  the  larger tasks  is  tracking the  new                                                               
proposed EPA federal rules on air quality in Alaska.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:40:30 PM                                                                                                                    
The Air  Permitting Program  has several  types of  permits, some                                                               
are state and some are federal  (Clean Air Act), which tend to be                                                               
the  larger  emitters  like   power  plants  and  industrial-type                                                               
facilities.   These  have   more  complicated   requirements  and                                                               
sometimes  facilities will  purposely try  to stay  below certain                                                               
levels  to simplify  the permitting  by  taking "owner  requested                                                               
limits" that limit their hours of operation (emissions).                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The  larger  facilities fall  into  two  big areas:  Construction                                                               
Permits and  Title V Operating Permits.  Construction permits are                                                               
the  toughest   they  issue,   for  example   -  a   North  Slope                                                               
liquefaction plant.  What will  it look like?  Where will  it be?                                                               
What  kind  of  emissions  will  it  have  and  will  the  area's                                                               
meteorology affect the distribution  of those contaminants in the                                                               
air;  and how  quickly  will they  be able  to  meet air  quality                                                               
standards?                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He  explained   that  the  big   problems  are  in   solving  the                                                               
Construction Permit before  going to an Operating  Permit. One of                                                               
the federal requirements  is one year of  meteorological data and                                                               
six months or  more of pollutant data before  the application can                                                               
even be  considered. So, these  permits have a larger  lead time.                                                               
For instance,  they are having  a lot of discussions  with Alaska                                                               
Industrial  Development and  Export Authority  (AIDEA) right  now                                                               
about a  liquefaction plant.  Also, under  federal law  you can't                                                               
even  begin construction  (before you  start emitting)  until you                                                               
have the permit. It's  a very key permit and often  is one of the                                                               
big drivers  on the timing  of a large construction  project that                                                               
has air emissions.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  HARTIG  described  the Air  Permitting  Program  as                                                               
being fairly  mature, the state  having had primacy  for decades.                                                               
The division has  a lot of good, skilled  people with experience;                                                               
although  that  makes them  vulnerable  to  those retirements  he                                                               
talked about.  So, one of  their big objectives is  to capitalize                                                               
on that  experience by putting  systems in place to  capture that                                                               
knowledge, so  it can  go to  the next  generation -  things like                                                               
tracking permits  on line where  people make one  application and                                                               
everybody  in the  division has  access to  that information  and                                                               
people can  track their permits  and know  where they are  in the                                                               
permit process.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:44:31 PM                                                                                                                    
A big air quality challenge is  in Fairbanks and they are working                                                               
closely  with  the  Interior  delegation  to  meet  their  needs.                                                               
Fairbanks has  high energy  costs with  people switching  to wood                                                               
burning as a heating source;  the winter cold air inversions trap                                                               
smoke close to ground where people breathe it.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He explained  that the Environmental Protection  Agency (EPA) has                                                               
rules for PM2.5 particulates that  can cause health problems with                                                               
healthy individuals  to say  nothing of  people with  asthma. The                                                               
DEC is required  by federal law to get that  area into attainment                                                               
with the national standard and  there are deadlines for putting a                                                               
plan  out there  with sanctions  if  a plan  is not  in on  time.                                                               
Interest groups are standing behind  EPA that have lawsuits filed                                                               
and threatened  to pile  on to  these potential  consequences. At                                                               
the  same  time  they  are  working with  the  governor  and  the                                                               
legislature to promote bringing natural  gas and propane into the                                                               
area, which ultimately  is part of the solution.  But the federal                                                               
deadlines arise before that can happen.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mendenhall  Valley  in  Juneau has  PM2.5  challenges,  too,  the                                                               
commissioner said, but the city has  a system in place to do burn                                                               
bans,  so they  don't go  into the  non-attainment that  triggers                                                               
sanctions and plan  requirements. The Butte area in  the Matsu is                                                               
bumping up against it, as well as areas in Anchorage.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:47:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE  said Fairbanks people  are very upset  and asked                                                               
if  the state  has sovereign  immunity from  litigation and  what                                                               
Clean Air Act  fines are being threatened. Is  there any evidence                                                               
in  Fairbanks  of  this  particulate  matter  damaging  lungs  in                                                               
Alaska? Has  a set of  hypotheticals from the  federal government                                                               
been overlaid on a place in Alaska?                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:49:13 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER HARTIG  answered PM2.5 is a  world-wide problem that                                                               
has been  studied a lot. Spots  in Fairbanks are really  bad; one                                                               
study  done  by the  Department  of  Health and  Social  Services                                                               
(DHSS) and  the University  of Alaska  Anchorage (UAA)  found the                                                               
number of visits to the  local hospital emergency for respiratory                                                               
issues  went up  with high  PM2.5 particulates.  How strong  of a                                                               
correlation can  be made?  Data suggests  there is  a correlation                                                               
that is consistent with other areas with small populations.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:51:34 PM                                                                                                                    
He said that federal immunity  doesn't apply here. All states are                                                               
subject  to the  Clean Air  Act and  no one  is immune.  He often                                                               
reminds people that  they are not just trying to  make the EPA or                                                               
the  federal government  happy; these  are real  health concerns.                                                               
One  of  the federal  sanctions  is  if  you are  thinking  about                                                               
bringing more military people in, if  the area is not meeting CAA                                                               
requirements,  there  can't  be  any federal  monies  that  would                                                               
support a project  that would make the problem worse  in the non-                                                               
attainment area.  Another one  is if a  new discharger  comes in,                                                               
even a private one, their new  emissions have to be "two for one"                                                               
or for every increase  of one you have to find  a decrease of two                                                               
somewhere else.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Fairbanks has  a 2014  deadline to submit  an approvable  plan to                                                               
EPA for  how the area will  reach attainment by the  end of 2015,                                                               
which isn't achievable, because natural  gas is needed to get all                                                               
the way. That will put  them into "serious non-attainment," which                                                               
kicks in other new sanctions  (because of some federal litigation                                                               
where  EPA  was   found  to  not  have  been   applying  all  the                                                               
requirements of the CLA that they  were supposed to for new PM2.5                                                               
rules).  It will  be hard  to escape.  The new  EPA administrator                                                               
visited Fairbanks  this summer  and she wanted  them to  know the                                                               
EPA would  work with  them to try  and find  accommodations here;                                                               
but  they will  reach a  roadblock, too,  when they  get sued  by                                                               
private litigants if they don't find the state in serious non-                                                                  
attainment.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said  the issue can't be  ignored, because of                                                               
the human  health consequences, the legal  requirements that they                                                               
have to meet  and the fact a federal judge  could force them into                                                               
it, too.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:56:25 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BISHOP stated that help is  on the way for Fairbanks. LNG                                                               
trucking will help the hardest hit  areas and the EPA is aware of                                                               
that.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:57:19 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  HARTIG said  a lot  is heard  about greenhouse  gas                                                               
emissions  from   existing  power  plants  and   new  ones  under                                                               
President Obama's climate change strategy.  EPA is working on new                                                               
rules  to  lower  emissions,  because power  plants  can  be  big                                                               
emissions  contributors in  most of  the United  States. Alaska's                                                               
plants  are a  lot smaller  and are  responsible for  a lot  less                                                               
percentage-wise or  the state's greenhouse gas  emissions and the                                                               
DEC has determined that they are  not one of the two top emitters                                                               
like it would  be elsewhere and it's likely  that existing plants                                                               
are  below  the  limit  that would  trigger  application  of  new                                                               
federal  requirements that  are being  proposed. He  didn't think                                                               
the new  liquefaction plant  would be impacted  by the  new rules                                                               
for a  variety of reasons:  North Slope plants are  already using                                                               
natural gas being one.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:59:14 PM                                                                                                                    
3. Division of Environmental Health:                                                                                            
It's one of the larger divisions  and the most diverse: it covers                                                               
everything  from   restaurant  inspections,   shellfish  farming,                                                               
geoducks,  the  state  vet,  tattoo  parlor  inspections,  public                                                               
drinking water systems, landfills,  and right now includes marine                                                               
debris and radiation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG  said the biggest  program is  drinking water                                                               
and food  safety, and  the biggest  challenge, which  people take                                                               
for  granted, is  having  clean  air, water  and  food, and  good                                                               
sanitation. It doesn't take much to  make food unsafe and DEC has                                                               
responsibility for  food safety within  the state; if  things get                                                               
shipped out  of state that  becomes the FDA. The  state sometimes                                                               
collaborates  with the  FDA by  doing their  inspections (getting                                                               
reimbursement).                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:00:10 PM                                                                                                                    
Food safety and sanitation is  not just someone walking through a                                                               
restaurant with a check list;  it's a very sophisticated program.                                                               
They are really looking at the  whole process of what is going on                                                               
and  whether  it's  creating  a  situation  where  the  types  of                                                               
contaminants you  worry about might  grow and get into  the food.                                                               
It's more  of an evaluation.  DEC should be  able to go  into the                                                               
establishment and  have a dialogue with  the owners, particularly                                                               
in the smaller establishments where  they may not understand what                                                               
and why  the department is doing  what it is. If  you can explain                                                               
to them when  the shipment of food arrives, how  it gets into the                                                               
refrigerator,  where it  is stored  in the  refrigerator and  how                                                               
often is the temperature checked, how  long it gets left out, and                                                               
thawed: these  dialogues are educational  and lead  to compliance                                                               
with food safety.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
One of the  big challenges in Alaska is that  the state is spread                                                               
out  so much.  In the  rest of  the country  you see  county food                                                               
inspectors,  but   in  Alaska   and  the   municipalities'  check                                                               
restaurants  but everything  else is  DEC. All  the schools  have                                                               
lunch programs and there are workers camps.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG  said people want  to do things  like onboard                                                               
processing  of salmon.  People that  want to  see the  whole crab                                                               
rather than  pieces of it;  when you have  a whole crab  you have                                                               
the viscera which  have the paralytic shellfish toxin  in it. So,                                                               
they  try to  coordinate the  DEC's program  with the  producers'                                                               
needs,  which  is  an ongoing  challenge  that  takes  consistent                                                               
dialogue.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:02:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH joined the committee.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:04:16 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER HARTIG  said for example, geoducks  are harvested in                                                               
Southeast and that is a  growing industry. They are worried about                                                               
the  paralytic  shellfish toxin  being  in  them, because  it  is                                                               
natural to the environment, the result  of algae in the area, and                                                               
it comes  and goes; it's  just unpredictable. There is  a federal                                                               
limit on  how much can  be in the geoducks  and still be  safe to                                                               
eat. So,  they have to  get a sample of  geoduck and send  it the                                                               
Environmental  Health Lab  where it  gets chopped  up and  fed to                                                               
mice  to see  how  long it  takes  them to  die.  While they  are                                                               
looking at  other methods,  the point  is that  it has  to happen                                                               
within a matter  of days, and when they get  the results from the                                                               
lab, they call  ADF&G and they open the fishery  for 3-5 days and                                                               
then it gets  shut down again and the testing  has to start over,                                                               
because PSP can  come back in. If there is  a closure the testing                                                               
has to  happen again.  The testing is  heavily subsidized  by the                                                               
state and it costs a lot, he said.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:06:23 PM                                                                                                                    
DEC's Environmental Health Lab is  in Anchorage and right next to                                                               
the Human  Health Lab that DHSS  runs and close to  the new Crime                                                               
Lab that Public Safety has.  Their lab doesn't compete with other                                                               
commercial labs that  sample for mines and others  who are trying                                                               
to  comply  with permit  requirements  all  the time.  It  covers                                                               
things that  aren't available commercially  like PSP  testing and                                                               
other testing  that federal or state  law says must be  done by a                                                               
government  for  security or  other  reasons.  They also  oversee                                                               
other state  labs by testing them.  The lab is not  a money maker                                                               
and the fees don't nearly  cover the costs. They need complicated                                                               
equipment  and  need expensive  certifications  to  have the  lab                                                               
certified to  be able to  do the test  they do. That's  why other                                                               
labs don't do it.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:08:26 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER HARTIG  said the State  Veterinarian is also  in the                                                               
Environmental Health  Division; he  works at  the lab  and mainly                                                               
looks  for  disease in  animal  populations,  domestic and  farm.                                                               
Animals come  into the state all  the time and he  tests them. He                                                               
works with Canada and the farm  community within the state. He is                                                               
also responsible for animal care under state emergency planning.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Working with ADF&G they also  collect fish for tissue samples and                                                               
test for mercury  and other contaminants that are  present in the                                                               
environment. They  look for trends  of other  contaminants coming                                                               
in from outside  the state that could impact  our fisheries. That                                                               
requires maintaining a good data  base, which is also a budgetary                                                               
challenge.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:10:40 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  HARTIG  stated  that  if the  fishing  industry  is                                                               
questioned about how  safe Alaska fish are the  division can show                                                               
a record of sampling our fish.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:11:01 PM                                                                                                                    
The Drinking Water Program is  another big program. Under federal                                                               
law you  have to meet Safe  Drinking Water Act standards  and new                                                               
rules come  in all the  time, because something that  happened in                                                               
the  Lower 48  starts  getting applied  to  every drinking  water                                                               
system in  Alaska. So, they  have to  figure out how  those rules                                                               
can be applied in rural Alaska and help them do it.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:12:59 PM                                                                                                                    
The  Solid Waste  Program includes  the landfills  even in  rural                                                               
Alaska,  but the  funding  they  get for  water  and waste  water                                                               
treatment is  the same money  that is available for  solid waste,                                                               
and  human  health  is  foremost.   Drinking  water  is  first  -                                                               
sanitation and  waste water treatment  - then comes  solid waste.                                                               
There is  never enough money  and they  are trying to  be smarter                                                               
with  their approach.  They  are trying  to  use best  management                                                               
practices for Class  3 landfills in rural areas  by making things                                                               
simple and easy to follow.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:14:46 PM                                                                                                                    
The larger  municipalities are Class  1 and 2 landfills,  and are                                                               
100 percent permitted and fully regulated.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The big challenge for the  Pesticide Program is invasive species,                                                               
the commissioner said. Mechanical removal  can be tried, but that                                                               
can  break up  species and  actually propagate  them. He  worries                                                               
that people  want to turn  to pesticides, but  getting guidelines                                                               
in place for its use is a looming challenge.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:16:25 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER HARTIG switched to  commenting on the Tsunami Marine                                                               
Debris issue  saying that  marine debris was  with us  before the                                                               
March 2011 earthquake  in Japan. Debris from it is  being seen on                                                               
the island shores  around Prince William Sound  and in Southeast.                                                               
It  came  from a  number  of  sources;  part of  the  mariculture                                                               
industry in Japan for one. Volunteers  were out trying to pick up                                                               
the debris and  then the tsunami hit. He said  there was no state                                                               
program or budget  for picking up marine debris,  so the governor                                                               
signed an  Executive Order  that put  DEC in  the lead  among the                                                               
state  agencies  to  deal  with  it.  The  National  Oceanic  and                                                               
Atmospheric Administration  (NOAA) has  a national  marine debris                                                               
program, but it is relatively small and had to ramp up.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Alaska got more  than its share of Japanese  debris: mostly solid                                                               
waste like Styrofoam and  polystyrene type construction materials                                                               
and large floats  from the mariculture industry  - nothing deemed                                                               
as hazardous  waste. While people are  concerned about radiation,                                                               
the debris washed  out five days before the  radiation leaked out                                                               
of  the  plant.   So,  you  wouldn't  expect   to  see  radiation                                                               
contamination and you don't. NOAA  and EPA also advise that there                                                               
is no risk there.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:19:43 PM                                                                                                                    
He said there is a lot  of public confusion about radiation risk,                                                               
and he  could understand  the concerns because  you can't  see it                                                               
and exposure  to it  can have big  consequences. We  get everyday                                                               
exposure  to  radiation  through   the  natural  environment  and                                                               
medical procedures.  People are  not familiar with  radiation and                                                               
how it's  measured and how  doses are  measured, so it's  hard to                                                               
put  in context  what their  exposure might  be to  the Fukushima                                                               
incident, but  you get more  radiation from eating a  banana than                                                               
from eating a big tuna caught in that area.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Alaska  doesn't have  a radiation  program, he  said, because  we                                                               
don't  have  nuclear  power  plants here.  The  other  states  of                                                               
California,  Washington,  Hawaii  and Oregon  do  have  radiation                                                               
programs, since  they have  nuclear power  plants and  they track                                                               
it. He  displayed a map  of currents that  come to the  U.S. from                                                               
Japan and  said that  data from those  Pacific states  and Canada                                                               
show  no  cause for  human  concern.  So,  Alaska doesn't  see  a                                                               
driving need  to try to  institute a program,  particularly since                                                               
it would  be started  from scratch. DEC  is working  closely with                                                               
the DHSS that has people who are experts in radiation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL  said the  question she  gets from  constituents is                                                               
that fish don't  necessarily swim just based on  the direction of                                                               
the  current and  they  could  be swimming  near  Japan and  then                                                               
coming back to us and asked  how she could respond with assurance                                                               
to a constituent with this concern.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  HARTIG answered  those  other  states are  sampling                                                               
fish in  their areas and  haven't seen  a reason for  concern and                                                               
Alaska fish don't have the  same exposure. Some people might want                                                               
to discredit Alaskan fish, but that is ridiculous.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:25:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MICCICHE asked  if he is partnering  with other agencies,                                                               
so we can send periodic  information to markets outside of Alaska                                                               
that our fish are good.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  HARTIG  answered  that Stephanie  Moreland  in  the                                                               
governor's office is  watching these kinds of issues,  as well as                                                               
people in Alaska Seafood Marketing  Institute (ASMI), and regular                                                               
meetings are set up through NOAA  and FDA to talk about what each                                                               
is  hearing and  what  data  is available.  The  next concern  is                                                               
unpredictable, so these conversations are response oriented.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:27:13 PM                                                                                                                    
4. Division of Spill Prevention and Response (SPAR):                                                                            
This division has several programs:                                                                                             
Industry Preparedness  and Response tries to  prevent spills from                                                               
happening;  Prevention,  Emergency  and Response  (PERP)  is  the                                                               
emergency  SWAT   team  that  goes   in  when  there   is  spill.                                                               
Containment  Sites  take  over  from   the  PERP  people  if  the                                                               
remediation is  going to  be a  long term or  if it's  a historic                                                               
site  rather  than  an  emergency  response.  The  Response  Fund                                                               
Administration is  the group that  oversees the  expenditures out                                                               
of the Response  Fund that has the declining  balance, their main                                                               
challenge.  It  has  contingency   plans  (C-plans)  for  certain                                                               
operations and  facilities in  the state, how  they are  going to                                                               
prevent spills  and if they  have a spill  how they are  going to                                                               
respond to  it and  meeting certain  planning scenarios  from the                                                               
state. They  are required  to actually be  able to  perform those                                                               
plans.  Financial assurances  are required  and spill  drills are                                                               
practiced, the department does inspections                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
They license  oil spill primary  response contractors,  people in                                                               
the state that  industry relies upon to help  them with response.                                                               
They are  required to  evaluate changes  in technology  and apply                                                               
the best available  technology when C-plans come  up for renewal.                                                               
For   instance,  they   have   had   best  available   technology                                                               
conferences recently  on detecting  corrosion in  pipelines. That                                                               
is  especially important  with OCS  development and  buried lines                                                               
coming onshore.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:29:47 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER HARTIG  said Cook Inlet  has a lot  more exploration                                                               
activity and  more players are coming  in. So, there are  more C-                                                               
plans and  the division tries  to make  them aware of  Alaska and                                                               
Arctic conditions, high tides, and a big fishery.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Shell was hoping to get back in  2014 to the Chukchi and least by                                                               
2015.  Even though  that is  outside  state waters,  a spill  out                                                               
there  could  move onshore.  They  also  have  a large  fleet  of                                                               
vessels they bring with them that have C-plan requirements.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
One of the ongoing challenges  for industrial preparedness is the                                                               
aging infrastructure on the North  Slope; for example, the two BP                                                               
corrosion spills in 2006.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:31:09 PM                                                                                                                    
They are also  involved in the Arctic Council  discussions on how                                                               
to  collaborate with  other nations;  Director  Kristin Ryan,  is                                                               
part of the  U.S. delegation just came back from  Norway on a new                                                               
spill  prevention  work  group  that   will  come  up  with  best                                                               
practices and  voluntary standards  for prevention of  spills for                                                               
the Arctic.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:31:57 PM                                                                                                                    
For context,  he said  there are about  2,000 reported  spills in                                                               
the  state each  year  and  not all  of  them  warrant an  agency                                                               
response. Most of  them are onto land, but 344  are reported into                                                               
water  a year.  They are  largely  diesel fuel  from ships  going                                                               
belly up and  trucks rolling over, aviation  fuel, hydraulic oil,                                                               
engine lube  oil, gasoline, and  others like produced  water used                                                               
in  mining. Not  much  is  from crude  oil  spills, but  industry                                                               
complains that  the surcharge on crude  oil is what is  taxed and                                                               
pays for it all.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:33:42 PM                                                                                                                    
Historically, about  half of the  contaminated sites  are largely                                                               
federal legacy sites, a third of  them are private, and the state                                                               
also has a number of them.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said they are  working with local communities                                                               
to try to  build capacity, because not every spill  is big.  Most                                                               
of the 2,000 spills a year can  be handled at a local level. They                                                               
try  to  train people  and  preposition  response equipment  like                                                               
absorbent pads and  boom. Then they come back  to the legislature                                                               
every  few  years for  a  half  million dollar  request  response                                                               
agreements and  equipment. It provides some  education about what                                                               
is involved in  a response, which gives people  more ownership in                                                               
their communities.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:34:48 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL noted that there  wasn't much equipment or training                                                               
between Kotzebue,  Barrow, and the  Canadian border  doesn't have                                                               
much  there, and  that  is one  of the  things  the Artic  Policy                                                               
Commission is recommending.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said  they are out in those  areas and trying                                                               
to recruit and maintain interest.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH asked why nothing is at Prudhoe Bay.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG replied  it has no community and  so there is                                                               
no  local group  to  coordinate with.  Historically, large  state                                                               
resource development  projects have  purposely not created  a new                                                               
community,  because they  don't  want to  compete  for the  local                                                               
resources with  the local communities.  So, there are  camps like                                                               
Red  Dog and  Dead Horse.  To him  it's a  trade-off, because  it                                                               
means that you don't have  all the public infrastructure that you                                                               
would normally have.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He explained  that the North  Slope's response organization  is a                                                               
skilled coop  called the Oil Spill  Response Organization (OSRO),                                                               
that is funded  by the major companies; on top  of that they have                                                               
great  participation by  the employees  that get  trained as  the                                                               
backup responders.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:37:49 PM                                                                                                                    
One of the  big questions the state faces moving  towards work in                                                               
the  Chukchi Sea  area  is that  it is  getting  pretty far  from                                                               
Prudhoe  Bay and  relying  on  Alaska Clean  Seas,  an OSRO,  and                                                               
providing   the  opportunities   to   involve  communities   like                                                               
Wainwright is how much industry  presence do they want; that will                                                               
determine the level  of their involvement. Maybe there  will be a                                                               
policy change.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH said  it seems  that  with mountains  of gear  at                                                               
Prudhoe Bay, there would some for the Chukchi.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  HARTIG  answered  that  specialized  equipment  and                                                               
training will be  needed that can get  in and out of  the ice and                                                               
the person who  owns the facility has  the primary responsibility                                                               
to  respond  to a  spill.  If  they fail,  then  he  can tap  the                                                               
Response Fund  and hire contractors to  do that and then  do cost                                                               
recovery.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL commented that the  Conexes are intended to respond                                                               
to  the smaller  spills  around a  fuel tank  in  a village,  for                                                               
example, not to go out to sea and put booms out.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:40:21 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said  they have a lot of  natural events like                                                               
the Galena  annual flood cycle  where they try to  stabilize fuel                                                               
tanks to  prevent losing them;  Environmental Health  is involved                                                               
in the drinking water wells and grounding of fishing vessels.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:41:32 PM                                                                                                                    
A hot topic in Alaska is  the use of oil dispersants. The state's                                                               
policy is to maximize mechanical  recovery when you have a spill;                                                               
the two  backup options are  to burn  it and to  use dispersants,                                                               
which goes into  water column providing more  opportunity for the                                                               
oil eating bacteria  to do its thing. These decisions  have to be                                                               
made  quickly; maybe  it is  better to  let it  go ashore  in the                                                               
Arctic  rather than  stay  in the  water  column. If  dispersants                                                               
become the option it has to  be deployed pretty quickly. They may                                                               
not be  in the  area or  the planes  might not  be there  nor the                                                               
trained people to  deliver it. Or it might have  to be flown from                                                               
Kodiak and  it could take  a while if the  spill is on  the North                                                               
Slope. It has to be part  of the upfront planning and communities                                                               
have to be involved.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:44:04 PM                                                                                                                    
He said  in 2004/5 they  had closed more contaminated  sites than                                                               
they had active sites; they are  trying to keep the new number of                                                               
sites  down and  deal with  all the  legacy sites,  including the                                                               
federal sites.  Their federal receipts  include $900  thousand to                                                               
deal with contaminated federal sites.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
A  big  challenge  is  the   Response  Fund  with  declining  oil                                                               
production,  because  it  is  funded with  the  nickel  a  barrel                                                               
surcharge that is  split with four cents going  to the Prevention                                                               
account, which pays for the  operations of SPAR. That account had                                                               
a surplus that has offset  the declining production historically,                                                               
but by  the end of FY15  they anticipate going into  the red; and                                                               
that  is when  a general  fund  $5-7 million  per year  increment                                                               
(assuming no  inflation or  labor increases)  would be  needed to                                                               
maintain  its  level  of services,  although  that  could  change                                                               
depending on some ongoing cost recoveries.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:45:26 PM                                                                                                                    
5. Division of Water: He explained  that last year HB 80 directed                                                               
the  DNR  and DEC  to  work  together  to  examine the  cost  and                                                               
benefits of the  state assuming the dredge and  fill program, the                                                               
Clean  Water Act  404  Program.  If you  put  fill material  into                                                               
waters of  the United States,  you need  a 404 permit,  and since                                                               
Alaska has a lot of wetlands, 404  is a big program here. So they                                                               
looked to see if it could  be made more user-friendly by assuming                                                               
primacy of the program.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
One of  the ideas on  mitigation is that there  is a no  net loss                                                               
policy in the  country, so if you fill in  some wetlands you have                                                               
to  replace it  with additional  wetlands. Here  that opportunity                                                               
may not  be readily available  or you may  be on the  North Slope                                                               
that has  millions of acres  of wetlands and the  question arises                                                               
do you  want to  add to  the millions of  acres of  wetlands just                                                               
like it  or could you  do something  about those legacy  wells as                                                               
part of the  mitigation. So, they are looking  at more all-around                                                               
water quality  benefits in  the state  as a  whole and  coming up                                                               
with ways  of doing  mitigation banking and  in lieu  programs so                                                               
that  people  don't  have  to   scrounge  around  for  mitigation                                                               
projects to do  something that may not make a  whole lot of sense                                                               
in the grand scheme of things.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said they are  getting a lot of collaboration                                                               
from the  federal agency, both EPA  and the Corps and  have hired                                                               
two  people  from  DEC  that  are now  housed  at  the  Corps  of                                                               
Engineers that  are participating in  the review and  issuance of                                                               
permits. They have ongoing meetings  with the State of Oregon and                                                               
have met with the two states  that have primacy, Michigan and New                                                               
Jersey.  Next year  their  initial report  will  come before  the                                                               
legislature, but  ultimately they will  bring a final  report and                                                               
recommendation  to  the legislature,  and  then  it would  decide                                                               
whether  to fund  the program  or not.  But until  they have  the                                                               
resources to run the program, they can't even apply for primacy.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:48:25 PM                                                                                                                    
Their  other challenge  in the  Water Division  Facility Program,                                                               
the  Village Safe  Water Program  (VSW), is  the water  and sewer                                                               
projects  in Rural  Alaska.  It relies  mainly  on federal  funds                                                               
(75/25 state) and federal funding has  gone down by 60 percent in                                                               
the last 10  years. So, they are looking at  ways of doing things                                                               
in a  smarter way in  the villages.  One current project  has put                                                               
out an  RFP to form teams  of engineers and others  that then are                                                               
proposing ideas  on projects, some  of which will be  selected to                                                               
look  for  ways  of  combining  existing  technologies  with  new                                                               
technologies  to  deal  with  some  of the  unmet  needs  in  the                                                               
villages  at lower  costs for  both  construction and  operation.                                                               
They are teamed  up with Alaska Native  Tribal Health Corporation                                                               
(ANTHC), EPA,  Department of  Agriculture (a  big funder),  and a                                                               
host of other agencies. Everybody  is interested in this project,                                                               
which is called the Alaska Challenge Project.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:49:59 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MICCICHE  asked if changing  the cruise  ship regulations                                                               
to not allow mixing zones had been drafted yet.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG answered  that the current status  is that HB
80 did  two things; it took  the general permit that  was already                                                               
out for cruise ships that was  due to expire in 2013 and extended                                                               
the  termination date  until 2015.  Otherwise  that permit  would                                                               
have expired  and DEC would have  had to require ships  to meet a                                                               
water quality criterion at the end pipe, which they couldn't do.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
It also allowed DEC to issue  permits in the future following the                                                               
existing mixing zones  regulations. So, they had  been working on                                                               
a  draft permit  based on  mixing  zone and  other water  quality                                                               
standards for  the next  cycle that  is in  draft form,  and that                                                               
should go  out for  public review  in time for  the start  of the                                                               
2014 cruise  season. If  it can't make  it through  that process,                                                               
the existing permit stays in place  until 2015.  He didn't recall                                                               
having to go back to do  a regulation change to deal specifically                                                               
with  the critical  habitat  areas around  the  state; those  are                                                               
designated by  ADF&G and one  of them  is in Kachemak  Bay, which                                                               
didn't  have a  discharge this  summer.  He offered  to get  more                                                               
information on that.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:53:31 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BISHOP asked for a map of the Superfund sites.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER HARTIG replied  those are designated by  the EPA and                                                               
when EPA proposes a site, they  will ask for the state's opinion,                                                               
but there is just a handful.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:54:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL thanked him for the overview and adjourned the                                                                    
Senate Resources Standing Committee at 4:54 p.m.                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SRES DEC Overview Hartig 20140122.pdf SRES 1/22/2014 3:30:00 PM